I mean I don't want autonomous cars to follow directions by humans that sound like "plow into this crowd of people". Even things like microwaves don't let you turn it on without the door closed. I don't see how this is any different.
It is fundamentally diferent because it tries to judge your intent. Thus being both opaque and unpredictable. Car refusing to drive onto person is easily understood. Autonomous car refusing to drive you to corner of Baker's street because that is suspicious destination, with no recourse or explanation, is totally different thing.
This is why you can't leave judgment to technology, and why we have law enforcement and courts
"Plow into this crowd of people" is nominally wrong, but what if its actually "plow into this crowd of people that are hurting and robbing a family with two small children"
Your smart hammer refuses to let you smash into a glass window, but what if you were smashing into the glass window to save a child stuck in a fire?
White collar work will require SOTA models up until the point where said models can automate white collar work entirely. Then, we might finally see a meaningful commoditization crunch.
All I see is a flattening of the technical curve. Which is great, but the number of people who want to download an app is still the same. So all you have is 100,000 apps with no users instead of 10,000 apps with no users
You increased the amount of code written by 10x but unless there’s a 10x increase in demand, its worth nothing
All my adult life, China has given me cheap material goods. Whatever they do in their country is their own problem. They’ve never interfered in my politics or started any wars
> They’ve never interfered in my politics or started any wars
But they have. I dont know what specific country you are referring to but China has interfered with US elections as well as Canada, Taiwan, and Australia in addition to many many others.
They’ve annexed Tibet (1950), fought India (1962) and Vietnam (1979) among others and more recently in 2020 a deadly skirmish with India. They’ve generally shifted their focus to cyber military actions but you’d have to be pretty naive they won’t start to exercise military control over Taiwan when/if they get a chance.
Now compare that to what the USA did in the same time frame. Pay special attention to people killed (either directly, or indirectly) outside of their own borders. Who should you be worried about?
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. As the saying goes: "better the devil you know". China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot (and take the whole word with it). The same cannot be said of other great powers like the US (under Trump, for more reasons than I'm willing to list here) and Russia (with Putin's completely harebrained invasion of Ukraine). China can prove me wrong any time by invading Taiwan, but I still hope they don't. Of course, if we try to keep them away from advanced chip technology, that would be further motivation to invade (although TSMC is unlikely to survive an invasion - even if it did survive the actual conflict, it would probably be destroyed or evacuated to avoid it falling into Chinese hands? But I don't want to see the hardware prices after such an event).
> If China goes to war, it's probably going to be because their economy is in tatters.
Well, they probably also have to factor in whether invading Taiwan is likely to improve that situation, and I would argue that it's not - China is currently exporting stuff all over the world, so economic sanctions would be very painful for them. And there are lots of countries who would like to have a slice of the manufacturing that China is currently hogging...
>China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot
It can? Have you heard of the Great Leap Forward? The Cultural Revolution? Either of those damaged the metaphorical foot more than anything the US has ever done.
China has planned out the invasion/reclamation of Taiwan in 2027. They held true to their Hong Kong timeline, not sure why this would be any different.
I have read the WHO [0] report and the conclusion is "possibly to likely" about the zoonotic origin of Covid, so no there isn't conclusive report how it came to be.
> If there is a cover up it is to hide incompetence.
Which is my point to GP's "reliable" argument. China is not reliable and has its own interests at play just like the US or any other state for that matter, regardless of its international partnerships. It does want to project itself as "reliable" - that I can't deny.
Yes we do. We also (despite theories stating the contrary) know that the current climate change is caused by us burning too many fossil fuels, that the utility of vaccines preventing deadly diseases outweighs any rare side effects, that airlines are not involved in a secret conspiracy of releasing chemicals (all airlines at the same time and only in certain meteorological conditions), and that the earth is roughly spherical.
You should avoid agreeing with the narcissists that always use false equivalence, whataboutism, and goal post shifting the second you call them out.
You are allowing them to define a ridiculous standard by agreeing with them that not only is it in fact “two evils” but what qualifies as evil. They’ll tell you…always only when called out, mind you…all and any meddling (also something they will then define with the same kind of falls equivalence loop) is evils, when that is simply not true, not is any kind of effort to influence the same thing as actual meddling, not us it always evil.
I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point, the narcissistic personality or their little zombies in most cases will constantly shift and change things all to avoid you from being able to get a clear focus on the truth, something their explosively allergic to.
As an American child of the Empire with global perspective and very high access perspective, there is no other entity besides the cabal that controls the USA and acts flying its banner; that is more deadly, more meddling, more conniving, more evil, more supremacist, and more vile.
Given it's an internet forum, and people here can be anyone around the world, I understand your intent but people over index on the threat that ofc feels closer, rather than the threat that's significantly farther away.
But in general if you ask folks in south east Asia you will find they are likely to be more concerned with China than US except this maddening Oil Crisis.
Although I think people now are very afraid/wary of both evils.
The US govt should think why people in all parts of the world including US itself feel just if not more threatened by them, than China and other evils we have floating around.
I would like to hope my American friends didn't vote for this madness or maybe they did I have read DHH's tweets.
Nobody said they negate each other. The comment being discussed is fearmongering about China and is very relaxed about the USA. All we're saying is you should be either afraid of both or relaxed about both. China is not worse than the US.
Dont pretend americans dont need to be afraid of american government. look at the state of the place. A lot of them arent exactly thrilled with their current environment, job market, education, prisonsystem, gun laws, food industry, healthcare etc. etc.
the question is valid for anyone who cares for more than their own ass
I'm an American, but I do not think the American government being strong helps me or my fellow Americans. The less America can project its cultural and military power on the rest of the world, the better.
There are different kinds of strengths. There was a past American government that was strong enough to stamp out inequality and fight for civil rights. To overturn oppression and give everyone an equal opportunity to succeed. That's a strong American government I could get behind.
Economic inequality is higher than it's ever been in the US. The reforms you're talking about largely happened in the single term of LBJ, I don't think it can be extrapolated to the "US government"
> There was a past American government that was strong enough to stamp out inequality and fight for civil rights.
this is a hilariously naive rewriting of history, the government was very reluctant to make those changes. It's thanks to popular movements that those changes were made.
I'm thinking specifically of the Little Rock Nine in 1957 where President Eisenhower took charge of the national guard so that nine Black students could attend high school. The government isn't one monolithic entity. It's a bunch of people doing different stuff, and some of them suck, and some of them are awesome.
Ok but when you said "There was a past American government that was strong enough to stamp out inequality" you did not make that distinction. The US government in 50s and 60s was not responsible for giving you civil rights, it was popular movements.
Yes. We can go into a whole history lesson and you can call me naive some more if it makes you feel bigger but doesn't seem like fun. To go back to my original point, a strong American government is a good thing in the places where it can do good, and is a bad thing in places where it will do bad. I would like the government to step in a build more housing, for example. A weak government can't do that. The market's failed to do that for all sorts of reasons.
After all of these years, no link between China and CoV2 virus was found[1][2]. Evidence points out that virus was originated few months earlier (September-October 2019) and outside of China. Wuhan was first city where CoV2 meet Swine Flu, which raised both infection rate and death rate (from 1.1% for CoV2 and 0.1% for Swine Flu to 5.4%).
Evidence points to Russia, where major incident happen at Sep 16, 2019[3] "Vector" BSL4 lab in Koltsovo (Novosibirsk), where unprotected first responders entered BSL4 lab and stole lab equipment. Then virus transferred to Wuhan by Chinese military police after joint training with Russian military in Koltsovo few weeks later after the incident.
If you pay a researcher to do gain of function research on dangerous viruses, and that research end up causing a global pandemic, you are absolutely to blame.
that is not correct in the slightest. It would only be your blame if you built and managed the lab. The lab is not US owned or managed, it's up to the lab who claims they can safely work on dangerous viruses to ensure that they keep it contained. They still own and manage and are responsible for the lab, the US just paid them for research. It's no different than the US contracting space onboard SpaceX rockets, the US isn't then suddenly responsible if the rocket misdirects and hits someone's house.
This has gotta be a troll man. They aren't responsible for poor security measures. They are only responsible for what is outlined in the thing they pay for. I'm gonna mute this thread purely because I'm pretty certain you're trolling for the sake of it. If for some reason you aren't trolling, take a business ethics and responsibilities course, there's some free ones online, or you could talk to a lawyer you might know, either one should help you understand.
Please reconsider this comment. Calling one side superior and the other side insects really doesn't help with the discussion, and dehumanizing a whole swath of people really has dark consequences.
Speak for yourself, in Italy we are also closer to US "culture", but I do see the US as a bigger threat than China, simply because it's closer and it directly affects our politics.
For a concrete example, consider e.g. Operation Condor which displaced my own family
> Operation Condor (Spanish: Operación Cóndor; Portuguese: Operação Condor) was a campaign of political repression by the right-wing dictatorships of the Southern Cone of South America, involving intelligence operations, coups, and assassinations of left-wing sympathizers in South America. Operation Condor formally existed from 1975 to 1983. Condor was formally created in November 1975, when Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet's spy chief, Manuel Contreras, invited 50 intelligence officers from Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Chile, Paraguay, and Uruguay to the Army War Academy in Santiago, Chile. The operation was backed by the United States, which financed the covert operations. France is alleged to have collaborated but has denied involvement. The operation ended with the fall of the Argentine junta in 1983.
Ok, let's follow your rules then. If we remove morality, we are left with what? Pure numbers?
If you want to be technically correct China foreign interventions are > 0, indeed. But the scale of US actions is, I would dare to say, at least one magnitude bigger.
An empire should be judged for how they treat their own citizens, their allies and their enemies. And if we do that, maybe China and the US are not so different.
I’m confused. You start off like you’re going to disagree and then end with the same conclusion I was trying to suggest. Keep in mind I was replying to subvenir who said “eh China not bad - they’ve file nothing wrong to me”
I'd like you to familiarise yourself with a legal and societal principle we use in civil law countries:
> de minimis non curat praetor
Which basically means judges are not interested in minor disputes. When you add the USA to the mix, China's actions pale in comparison to the point of being negligible, no point in discussing them given the scale of USA's warmongering, overseas and local crimes. "They never interfered in [...]" is an exaggeration which shows the lack of importance of China's crimes when compared to the USA's, that's all.
The "whataboutism" here isn't a deflection strategy, it shows the hypocrisy and correctly minimises the scale of China's actions in comparison to the hypocrites'.
Whataboutism is a very useful game to reveal whether people are being honest or not.
If someone is vocally complaining about country A doing some oppressive activity, while ignoring country B doing 100x the same activity, the comparison does not forgive or excuse country A, or make them right or admirable.
But it does allow us to conclude that the person complaining is biased. Either they don't care about the oppressive activity and want to attack country A for some other reason. Or they have a particular fondness for country B and will never accept that it does wrong. Or some variation on these.
Except it’s op posting whataboutism not me - their claim is that China has done nothing wrong to them with the implication that the USA has. I was highlighting that China indeed likely has done the things they’re complaining about.
It would be whataboutism if it was a random Joe saying "China is evil" not literally a company that 1) is in the US 2) has a strong influence in the government and legislations affecting them and their competition.
In this case it's just pointing out the propaganda and the contradiction.
The Indian wars were border skirmishes at most. Literally 2,000 soldiers dead on both sides combined by official count. Very few civilian casualties.
The 2020 skirmish was way smaller with single digit casualties. Again, almost no civilian casualties because it's a largely empty region in the first place
You really can't compare this to the kind of wars America has started. Casualties - both civilian and military - stood in the hundreds of thousands
I mean most of Chinese "wars" have been border issues. Most of these border issues themselves stem from badly drawn borders post colonial withdrawal. These are understandable, if not justifiable - countries tug at each other to figure out where their territories start/end. A hostile neighbor at your borders is a legitimate national threat
America's wars have been in countries so far away that they could've never posed any threat whatsoever to America as a nation.
> America's wars have been in countries so far away that they could've never posed any threat whatsoever to America as a nation
That’s fallacious reasoning that ignores how easy travel is and how cheap an attack can cause massive damage. 9/11 was massive attack from countries far away. We regularly see commercial drones being used in warfare causing huge damage and casualties. There was the 2012 terrorist attack on our CIA facilities in Benghazi.
Terrorism entrenched abroad impacts our security. Is the response we take incorrect and makes it worse / are there things we do to provoke this? Some things yes, other things are like having Israel as an ally which is a culturally, socially and economically aligned power in the region even though it’s hated in the region.
Also don’t forget the US is a major maritime power. China is trying to be, Russia is not. Maritime powers force project more broadly because a) is the nature of being a maritime power b) you have to protect shipping to make sure trade routes are uninmpeded. B is particularly important as it also helps explain the wars (eg the Iran war is about the strait and trade and who collects money, not really about nuclear capabilities).
If you're making a case of this vs what the US has interfered with, it simply does not stack up. Of course it's naive to think they won't start interfering like the US once they gain the leverage, but to a neutral party it likely doesn't matter which of these two ends up as the superpower on the global stage.
Tibet was part of China since the Quing dynasty in the 17th century, it briefly declared independence during the chaos of the Chinese civil wars, but it was never recognised.
Vietnam is usually recognised as a low point in Chinese history.
There's been an ongoing border dispute between China and India for over 100 years, thanks to some questionable line drawing by the British.
Also, referring to the parent comment, of these only the border skirmish with India was within my lifetime.
in contrast this is USA's main job is to Interfere in any country it can in favor of its own goals. not related to what the people of that state really want.
north Americans must stay silent about interfering in other states internal issues.
Repression of their own citizens is another subject. It is of course highly problematic and should be condemned as much as possible, but in the same way that if the US decided to repress mormons violently, it remains internal affairs and not an imperialistic threat to the countries around them.
I imagine they are better off and more developed than any of the Muslim regions the US has bombed the ever living crap of continuously over the past 50 years...
So I don't support the re-education camps that happened in Xinjiang. Exactly what happened here is still a bit of an unknown because unfortunately there's a ton of misinformation. Whatever did happen, you can go see yourself. It's not a closed region. There are a ton of Youtube videos of people going.
But I hate this talking point for one primary reason: almost nobody who brings it up actually cares about the Uyghurs. It's just a talkijng point.
How do I know this? Because of Palestine. If Benjamin Netanyahu turned around tomorrow and treated Palestinians as Uyghurs were and are treated and developed the region like China does today then he would win the Nobel Peace Prize and Palestinians would be unquestionably better off. It wouldn't be sufficient mind you.
Israel's crimes in Palestine are America's crimes because Israel could not exist without the economic and military support of the US, political cover in the UN and international community and the political will of Us domestically. It would collapse tomorrow if the US withdraw support.
So I don't want to hear a thing from China hawks and skeptics about Xinjiang unless they're louder what Israel is doing to the region.
> But I hate this talking point for one primary reason: almost nobody who brings it up actually cares about the Uyghurs. It's just a talkijng point.
Exactly, it's just people parroting psyop narrative talking points, Taiwan is another. Repeat something enough and people will eventually believe it.
There's a reason other nations are choosing China over the US/EU (including Muslim and Turkish ones) - there's no moralizing, political requirements, nor bombs.
What people don't know is that China's "war" against Vietnam in 1979 was actually a pledge of allegiance to the United States, a way of demonstrating its stance.
This event was followed by the longest honeymoon period in Sino-US relations, which eventually lead to China's rise.
"But Tibet!!!" has to be the most intellectually lazy pro-American imperialism argument, particularly when you consider the US history of regime change [1]. Heck, this unwinnable war we're fighting in Iran has a direct through line to not one but two such incidents, specifically the coup in 1953 and US involvement in the Islamic Revolution in 1979 (ie making sure the fundamentalists won instead of the communists). And weirdly a significant number of these puppets end up turning into enemies and far worse problems (eg Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden).
Tibet specifically is funny because one of the things China did was end slavery in Tibet [2]. A large percentage of the population were "serfs" but that was a generous translation because these "serfs" could be traded. You know, like property. Like slaves.
And Vietnam? They had a small border dispute. What did the US do to Vietnam? And Cambodia? And Laos?
But the funniest claim of all here is election interference. The foreign interference in US elections conversation begins and ends with Israel with an honorable mention to Russia for running some Facebook ads. Just last night we had a debate in the Democratic primary for Senate in Michigan, a race that AIPAC proxies (eg UDP) have spent upwards of $60 million. On a primary.
They have colonies and generally aspire to become basically the old british empire as a longterm strategy? At least thats what they push with that "century of humiliation" comeback strategy internally..
Wow, that newest of Trump's distraction talking points made it surprisingly quickly to the uncontended (?) and commonly accepted facts in HN conversations.
You’re misinformed. The Biden administration in 2020 declassified that Beijing has prepared to latch influence campaigns in 2020 but backed off. December 2023 a report was released that they had changed track and engaged in influence operations during the 2022 midterms. Biden’s administration also warned about influence operations in the 2024 election cycle. The Biden DOJ unsealed multiple indictments against Chinese intelligence officers, state-backed hackers (such as APT41), and illegal Ministry of State Security agents acting inside the U.S.
You’re very misinformed if you think Trump’s latest blathering are completely wrong. I generally don’t pay attention to him so I don’t know exactly how he lied or exaggerated but I’m sure he did. It doesn’t negate the real and active influence operations China is engaged in
You’re very misinformed if you think democrats and republicans arent playing the “election influence fiddle” in exactly the same way; legitimising the elections they won, casting doubt on those they lost, all while achieving the main goal of making sure the population doesnt forget who their so called enemies are.
Lots of assumptions about what I think. I pointed out that Trump put the topic on the agenda a few days ago and now it comes up in HN comments. No more, no less. Whether it has merit is a different question. Point is that the reach of him setting topics goes far which is hard to deny.
No one who believed it definitely was has changed their mind, they've just at most gotten quiet about it.
No one who believed it definitely was not has changed their mind, they've just at most gotten quiet about it.
No one who believed it could have been but that the claim has not been proven have changed our minds, we've just decided that there's no way to know what actually happened.
At this point with how volatile US is I'd rather have China control Taiwan than US.
And this comment isn't about putting any good light on China. Lately US acts like they want to compensate for Russia fucking up less things around the world
> Whatever they do in their country is their own problem.
Idk to me it feels like human compassion and ethics dictates that you at least have to care a bit even about the things in other countries. Otherwise all sorts of horrible domestic policies would be justifiable.
That's a very selfish way to think of it. Whatever they do in their country does not stay in their country because China is becoming a superpower so you should expect it (as it's normal) to interfere and affect policy abroad.
For example Lithuania has been punished for letting Taiwan opening an embassy (in Lithuania). So China cares what other countries do in their country. Without EU support Lithuania could have faced very harsh consequences. That's just an example. Another example is the "secret police" stations undeclared overseas police stations operated by China in various countries (i.e. U.S for example).
China gave you cheap material goods because that was its business but you have to keep in mind it's an authoritarian, communist regime. It carries an extra risk on top of the potential economic coercion if you give it too power. At least you know that U.S is only after the money and does not want to turn your country in a communist "utopia".
That being said this does not mean we should ban Chinese AI models because China didn't cross any red lines(yet) compared with Russia for example.
That looks like to support my point. The US is just for the money. It’s not like they brought them communism or whatever Venezuela has there. They simply said they don’t care about “spreading” democracy anymore as long as the regime plays ball. I think they did that anyway in the past but at least it was not the “official” policy.
Yes and the USA trained and gave weapons to the Taliban and many other terror organizations. "China sold none weapons to another country" really pales in comparison.
This is wrong. The US did not give weapons to the Taliban (voluntarily). If you mean Operation Cyclone their receiver was not the Taliban but the mujahadeen, which, yes, consisted of Taliban, but also of enemies of the taliban (northern alliance)
What are you expecting when you're physically in another country attempting to annex it?
The only reason I suspect Iranian proxies are not doing the same in the US is right now the US is just Trump in Iran with 2/3rds of the country not supporting him. The day a bunch of civilians bite it partying in Miami, that calculation changes.
The US is "guilty" of materially supporting Ukraine in a bid to defend itself. The US isn't mad at Russia or China for doing the same for Iran as this is all... fairly normal in geo politics.
China is becoming an intellectual powerhouse in addition to a manufacturing powerhouse and runs huge spyware and propaganda campaigns.
Read up about T95, MBOX, TVBOX, or other Android TV Boxes advertised as generic TV streaming devices advertised as "unlocked" or capable of accessing free content. They're loaded with spyware/malware, typically BADBOX. Some of them will record audio and record your network traffic and send it to China.
I'm also convinced that the anti-education thread winding its way through US culture is being amplified by China. They likely didn't start it, as it's been growing for decades, but China will happily keep it going.
I mean them selling the cheap material goods is politics, and they use that a lot to threaten other countries. They constantly bully neighbors and assert claims on foreign terriroty. They might not be the comic book villians people are making them out to be but your take is just ignorant
Nice straw man. The point is not "cheap stuff" but using economic leverage and territorial pressure on others because of the "cheap stuff." And yes, all China does is produce cheap stuff for the world, nothing else at all lol.
Oh i bet they have not directly interfered with your politics, but they do interfer a lots in various things. More than any other country on this planet? I don't know. China is big. Really really big.
> They’ve never interfered in my politics or started any wars
They actively back russia and deliver them weapons and support them with their attempted Genocide in Ukraine. They also actively threaten Taiwan.
Not to mention them claiming almost the entire South China Sea even though this being against international law and threatening smaller nations into submitting to them
Imagine you have most expensive disease in human history by economy standpoint and after 6 years we have just claims of where it came from. Isn't that suspicious enough?
I should make my point more explicit so you can't misunderstand it.
> after 6 years we have just claims of where it came from. Isn't that suspicious enough?
No it is not suspicious, because most zoonotic pandemics have murky origins - spillover events are rarely identified at anything better than the species level. For evidence I point to everything on this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics_and_pandemic... (starting with the bottom of the list, in case you come back with irrelevant comments about Roman technological progress).
They did downplay the effects of covid and spread misinformation about it as well as silence the researches and journalists who were first trying to ring the alarm bells
Yes, I remember: "Vector" BSL4 Lab, Novosibirsk, Russian Federation, Sep 16 2019. Fire blast, then unequipped military first responders which stole lab equipment, then joint military training with Wuhan military police few weeks later.
The article says otherwise. It opens with it isn’t genocide but is crimes against humanity.
The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide, placing the United States’ top diplomatic lawyers at odds with both the Trump and Biden administrations, according to three former and current U.S. officials.
So many of these have some building as the backdrop, but all the buildings are modernist skyscrapers and uninspired office buildings
Europe doesn't have a dearth of stunning architecture. Have they all been discarded in favor of ugly straightline modernist sloptitecture because they might be construed as offensive for some reason?
This sounds very self-centered. Many people already see the EU bureaucrats as something alien, let's not give them another reason to think they're selfish.
I think it's the other way around. Many people have no idea about how the EU works and what exactly is going on there. I believe highlighting the key institutions through their iconic buildings will raise awareness and increase trust in EU institutions!
The European Union is not a good thing. Full stop.
Excellent debate. Good arguments made.
You lack the imagination for what the EU could have been, not an institution that imposes itself on the people while screaming “democracy” and “equality” as the abuses continue unabated and the indigenous people and the millennia and century old cultures of Europe are being eradicated and snuffed out. It is being done in far more sophisticated and subtle ways, but like they were in the Americas, in Russia, in China, in Asia in general, etc. it was also done to the Americans who were a prosperous and educated and vibrant people before the 20th century, and now it is what everyone knows it as…… the future face of Europe if this continue.
they could put the ECB on the 500€ since a money factory is a decent image to put on a banknote, and follows the original bridge series theme of ancient-modern.
but find some actually nice buildings to put on the rest
Perhaps making the notes as ugly and boring as possible will push folks off physical money onto trackable digital money that is just as soulless as the buildings on the notes.
Are you against the idea of European cooperation in general? Or against the implementation?
If there is to be European cooperation that goes beyond heads of states talking to each other, you're going to need some kind of space where they can do that. Using that building as a symbol seems like an obvious choice albeit not a very creative one. Really struggle to see how that choice can be "extremely insulting".
> Are you against the idea of European cooperation in general? Or against the implementation?
I'm against ugly soulless buildings. Those buildings can't be a symbol for anything, because they, like all modern [1] buildings, were deliberately designed to remove all identity. They are completely generic, no different from modern buildings in Beijing, New York, or Dubai. The only thing they represent is a capitulation, or refusal, of making things beautiful.
I'd vastly prefer some national landmark of the nation that committed war crimes against us in WWI & II, than that.
[1] Or is it "modernist"? Whatever the "style" of basic geometric shapes in steel and glass is called.
The average European does not view those buildings as symbols of European cooperation. They are just another generic office building some nameless and faceless bureaucrats work in. They lack the symbolism and recognizability of some US buildings like the White House, the Capitol, or the Pentagon - which are all inherently linked to the institutions they host.
A movie showing an external shot of the White House establishes that we're going to be looking at the US President next. A movie showing an external shot of the European Parliament establishes... office drones working in the Business Factory?
this is because people don't even recognize the buildings. Even I only recognized the commission and the ECB. I think if we put them on our money, citizens will recognize them more!
I don't think any of these buildings has the recognizability potential. I could recognize the Commission too since I see it on TV every day, but others are generic offices.
The White House has a distinct shape. The Capitol has a distinct shape. The Pentagon absolutely has a distinct shape.
I don't think the ECB will ever be recognizable (or at least won't become recognized via exposure), since it's just a glass tower like thousands of others.
There just shouldn’t be any buildings on those notes. Any good choices are too country specific.
All of them are out imo only D & F I find actually inspired and good the rest of these designs should go straight into the bin.
Stop birds, people, buildings then see what they can come up with. Gotta be better.
These are EU government buildings; unlike the bridges in the current notes, they’re real structures, not an archetype. The EU likes a giant office block, generally.
Europe is a continent with countries that have literally centuries of enimity and nationalism between them.
You cannot put a French building on a banknote.
Bland and inoffensive is what keeps the Union together. Its why Strasbourg exists. Its why there are Dutch translators despite the fact every Dutch member of parliament speeches in English.
I'm in the EU and you absolutely can put a French building on a banknote. I'd much rather look at the Eiffel tower or the Tower of Pisa or Neuschwanstein castle than the European Court of Auditors.
Or if you like to have something modern, Paimio Sanatorium or Turning Torso.
But that defeats the purpose of having a boring glass building, or birds or modern bridges. The underpinning ideology is that europe should have no history, no culture and no identity, because suggesting anything else 1) will offend the hyper sensitivity of modern left ideologues who think that the said culture, history and identity is terrible and should only be condemned, apologised for, and buried, and 2) would be unwelcoming to immigrants as it would suggest somehow that there is a society they should adapt to rather than the other way round.
I remember a major French pro-european politician (Modem party) attempting to define Europe (in the context of integrating Turkey), as "the friends of democracy". When you can't (or rather refuse to) define your identity, the only thing left to represent it is birds, office buildings and bridges. Notre Damme de Paris or the Pantheon in Rome are just old embarrassing historical artefacts of an evil civilisation.
I as a random Pole with a lefty euroenthusiast stance would gladly accept the Pantheon or Notre Damme. I'd prefer Colosseum and Eiffel tower though.
The blandness comes from the fact that the EU has to tiptoe around the nationalists which will be upset that a country they don't like gets a banknote, and possibly even worse - they didn't get one.
Reading back both your and my post I guess it's the radicals of either stance who the EU desperately needs to cater to, resulting in generic designs. It's erasing itself like any institution with a 1-member veto.[1]
The underpinning ideology is that Europe (meaning the EU) should have no history, no culture and no identity because they are monopoly of the member States/nations. And, as always, if you put a monument or person from some country in the banknotes, the other states will complain
I don't know that it's about "Bland and inoffensive" so much as about recognition that differences are fine. Two football teams don't agree about which team is best - but they do agree the rules of football. Without that there is no game.
Having multiple languages is more of that "differences are fine". The use of Directives rather than Regulations for many purposes allows a country's government to incorporate local differences in how we do things. A Regulation applies everywhere, but the Directive just tells your government to make local law to meet some goal. What we want to achieve is the same in Paris and San Gimignano but how we do it will vary by local culture.
I get that we wouldn't want to single out specific nations over others on the designs.
But I kinda wish we would national designs like we do for the coins, one side's standardized and the other gets a custom design depending on the nation. I think we'd get a lot very neat variety, but I understand that it makes things a lot more complicated and expensive.
I mean, half of these proposals put specific people from specific countries on banknotes. So it's hard to argue that it would be impossible to do the same with buildings.
As it stands, AI has already surpassed the energy consumption of all cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin, and is also burning the entire planet [0]. It is only going up due to the data center build out. [1][2]
The cryptocurrency industry already found ways to migrate off of PoW to Proof-of-Stake so there exists an efficient alternative to reduce emissions.
AI still does not and the hard requirement is to build more data centers to keep up with the scale, hence higher token prices, energy prices, electronics and water.
And now people such as myself have access to open weight models with that information.
I wasn't lucky enough to have parents put me through school, and LLMs have absolutely helped me further educate myself and play "catch up" on opportunities others have been given. So, the net effect has been (and is continuing to be) a democratization of information.
You could have gained that stuff prior to LLMs. The leg up you're describing is free information on the internet, not AI. AI just makes it a little easier to find, while also crushing the original sources in the process. (Even if it had a broken culture, is stack overflow even going to exist in a year? Where are they going to train on going forward?)
Agreed, i wish that it would have done more than change who gets rich off rent-seeking behavior surrounding the knowledge that others created, instead it just consolidated that from many gatekeepers to a few.
I can at least take some measure of pleasure in the fact that it has generally lessened the roadblocks in gathering information. I am still displeased that there are any gatekeepers of humanity's combined knowledge
Businesses like these used to public at reasonable valuations. You could ride with them to trillion dollar valuations and grow your own fortune too. Everyone has a story of buying Apple or Google or Amazon stock and making millions
Now they’re going live at trillion dollar valuations and by the time you get in, all the upside has already gone (see Spacex IPO)
Not only did they steal all human data, they also made sure that the upside was only limited to themselves and their cronies
The most insane part of AOE2 is that I was a young teenager when I first played the game and the dominant players then are STILL the dominant players now - 27 years later
At the very top probably not, at least these days. But historically low APM players were often able to overcome that through better decision making and get to the top 4 or so. That’s generally still the case outside of the top 4-8.
Now the meta is quite established and it’s much easier to get better at decision making through practice than becoming physically faster.
It’s very complex though while the factions are mostly symmetrical there are over 30 of them and they all have marginal advantages/disadvantages. Games are more usually than not won through optimally utilizing them. So in tournaments drafting became very important since using the same civilization twice or by opposing players is almost universally disallowed. So to be successful you need to outwit the opponent by picking the right faction(s), be capable of making the optimal strategic decisions and be very fast/good at micro (which is also probably more important than in most other games since arrows are not heatseeking missiles and pathfinding is extra wonky)
Uh, dunno if I'd say that BW is dominated by "the young".
Top 4 at the latest ASL are all born before 1995 - they're all millennials. None of them are from the first generation of BW pros, but they've been in the game for a long time.
I think BW has the collapse of the infrastructure that used to support it as a ongoing televised event to blame for that one. It’s less popular among gen z so there isn’t the up and coming replacement and no one is paying them to do it as a full time job as even the mid-tier pros from its prime era were.
Imagine asking for permission to use your hammer