Maybe I'm misreading, but this sounds like a defeatist take. Why would a 50yo be slower? I'm in my early 50s and at the absolute top of my game. I'm a principal eng at a medium-ish company and spend a lot of my time mentoring the "kids" and providing direction to engineers that don't have the same well of experience to draw on.
I would naturally assume that an IC in their 40s or 50s is much faster than someone in their 20s. But that assumes they've actually been doing IC work. I've had a lot of interviews with people that are very experienced on paper but struggle in the pairing interview; whatever they were doing before, it wasn't hands-on-keyboard work.
If you enjoy programming I don't see why there's any limit other than senility or death.
Well, our intellectual abilities decline as we get older. I don't know at what age effects become apparent but it's unavoidable so maybe i'm a bit defeatist indeed :) In my case, I can feel my memory isn't as good as it used to be and I do feel slightly slower to pick up things. I don't think it affects my job though. Performance isn't unidimensional.
Regarding being faster than someone in their 20s, it really depends on what task (and which someone!). Lots of the things I work on are rather new. For instance, if I'm writing Rust or using some internal tools, I'm not at much of an advantage compared to my 25 years old colleague unfortunately.
In any case, I try to not worry too much age in general. I do my job the best I can, I treat older and younger colleagues alike and just hope everybody else does the same.
I've noticed the same as I get older; I think/hope the main compensation is that, despite being slower on the low-level tasks, the accumulated wisdom you've got means that you're better at the higher level stuff.
A buddy of mine introduced me to the concept pair of Fluid and Crystallized Intelligence. That's the short answer to your question. An older dev will have more accumulated experience and will be able to make decisions based on experience much better, but a younger dev will adopt new tools and learn new frameworks faster, and the latter tends to be the heavier load for the average job-lifetime (say 2-5 years) in the modern tech industry.
> younger dev will adopt new tools and learn new frameworks faster
I don't believe this one second. After you've worked significant time in a multitude of platforms, languages, and frameworks, you tend to notice what they all have in common. Van Neumann architecture is pretty much the same everywhere. The principles of functional programming are pretty much the same everywhere. Very little is new under the sun.
Maybe there's a hypothetical engineer that has spent 30 years doing one thing and has "fossilized intelligence". But I don't think that's the norm, and I'm pretty sure that will show up pretty quickly in an interview.
As someone in that age group, who is also a competitive chess player, it is an objective fact that one's brain significantly slows down over 50. We also have less physical stamina for long hours, all nighters, etc.
Experience, wisdom, there may be many benefits to employees over 50 – but we crunch data slower, let's not fool ourselves.
> I ... spend a lot of my time mentoring the "kids" and providing direction to engineers
That is exactly what I would expect, and that's great. And by the same token, you are NOT spending most of your time doing calculation- or analysis-intensive IC work, where kids have the speed advantage.
Some of the most productive people I know, who can get on the fly the ideas are 50+. So if you are going more slowly, maybe it is on you? I don’t think is a good and fair generalization. Is any?
I don't understand the need to argue about absolutely everything that so many tech dudes have. Who are you trying to convince?
Anyone here can can easily Google: does the brain slow down with aging
But maybe yours doesn't – maybe you will live forever at 110% efficiency, like Elon, or Bryan Johnson, powered by the blood of young virgins. Good for you.
I do not get why some tech people read some random articles in internet and think they are neurologist, experts in endocrinology, etc… ahhh Hubris.
Now I do not know by what measure my brain gets slower, and I do not care. Productivity can be achieved in many ways. Let me tell you about a friend of mine: he was unable to study engineering in his 20, he was barely able to keep a job. Was doing minimal wage… then (maybe?) his brain got slower… but you know what? His testosterone went down, and was able to keep his 3 neurons working without thinking in sex; by age 45, got an engineering degree, then got to CTO at big company…
You see?! Life is soo much complex as you seem to be able to understand. So again, I know lots of people, that because of many reasons, e.g. no more kids at home, broken (bad) marriage, whatever, are far far more productive.
You keep doing the same mistake: you read some article, and think that little piece of information you just discovered ,or happen to know, is all there is to know about it.
I apologize in advance if there was some typo, from which you want to make an ad hominem argument (you should google that, because is annoying that seems is all you can do when you have no more arguments)
I am responding to the use of the word "slower" in the comment at the top. I am in the relevant age group (are you??), and my brain is definitely *SLOWER*. Brain speed - that is the only thing I'm discussing here.
Does that make me a worse person or a worse employee or a candidate for euthanasia? No, I never said or even suggested it did. I'm not sure why you are moving the goalpost and talking about your friend's wonderful life, his stock options, sex life, etc. Good for him, but it's got nothing to do with AGE SLOWS DOWN OUR BRAINS.
Hu… so you are from those than only take advice from a doctor when he already had the same illness as you, and if he didn’t, he has no idea what is talking about… and AGAIN btw, ad hominem argument… it cannot be that that is all you have!
Just for the record: it does not matter if I’m in that age group, but I’m.
The only person here moving the goal, and abandoning discussions by not replying or making ad hominem arguments when shown that you are plain wrong here is you, btw, other people have repeatedly pointed that out, is not that I said that.
Now back to track, because you want to derail the discussion just for the sake of “winning”:
I was replying to your comment, where you stated: “Experience, wisdom, there may be many benefits to employees over 50 – but we crunch data slower, let's not fool ourselves.”
My interpretation of that sentence is that at some point in life, everyone will not be able to keep the pace at some intellectual tasks, and even when I do agree 100% that brain ages, and that some people may experience difficulties in very demanding environments (e.g. ATC) for the vast majority people between 40 and 60 (and even beyond, with less degree) is the point when they reach their maximum potential. The “speed at crunching” is a minimal part of everyday life and work, so minimal in fact, that even if you get bad/slow at it, you can compensate by pre optimization: that is, to first filter, then crunch.
Also btw you mention physical stamina. Which is IMHO totally irrelevant to the discussion. I know of no work, (physical or intellectual) that needs stamina… if anything life and work is about endurance, not stamina.
Now to be clear: I’m not discussing here for winning an argument, or because I enjoy it. If fact is terrible to have to discuss with someone like you, because you insult immediately. I’m trying to get a point here through, because I have seen just how bad can it be, for the mental health of some people, to believe that they are somehow “getting old”. I have seen people go down into a deep depression, just because some random charlatan in internet said “from X years things are going to be so” doing nonsensical generalizations.
But I assume you will lose again the opportunity to discuss and learn something, by throwing some ad hominem arguments, or just insulting without any logical following from the discussion.
brain aging is not unlike say aging bodies for athletes, eventually you won’t be able to compete at the highest level. but just like athletes change the way they play as they age so do people in professions where they use their brain. michael jordan was ridiculous in his prime, basically outrunning and outjumping everyone. as he aged he was still ridiculous - once he could not outrun and outjump his opponents he developed a fadeaway and lowpost game that carried him through his last few seasons. I am in my 50’s and my brain is definitely aging, I have been feeling it for a decade now… but I have also adjusted to that with almost 3 decades in this industry to use a cliche I work smarter not harder now :)
Absolutely! Speed is not everything, experience and knowledge are as or more important. Specially the ability to tell what “will” be important. When I was younger I had better memory, but I had to remember everything, because I didn’t know what I was going to need. Now I forget a lot, but the five important things not… it goes much smoother.
I’ve met some people that read some articles that state the brain ages, got depressed and they decayed quickly. Just sad. Not everyone is equal. Some do age well.
I hear you, but even big tech companies give mid-career job candidates "tests" that heavily involve the speed of basic calculation. Doing the job is not the issue, and I agree with you about "working smarter." Getting the job can be an issue.
but even big tech companies give mid-career job candidates "tests" that heavily involve the speed of basic calculation
this is 100% NOT a thing... a company would get their pants sued for age discrimination if they even broached anything like this in conversation let alone implemented it ...
I’m still waiting for OP to give an example… never ever heard of such thing. If anything, quite the opposite: they search more for calm, reflexive, meditative, non impulsive people. Speed is bo requisite.
Can you please give an example of “big tech companies give mid-career job candidates "tests" that heavily involve the speed of basic calculation”. Having worked 30 years in very big companies (10k+ employees) in 5 different countries, i have never had, or ever heard of, any tests which require speed of basic calculations in any color, shape or form.
I would naturally assume that an IC in their 40s or 50s is much faster than someone in their 20s. But that assumes they've actually been doing IC work. I've had a lot of interviews with people that are very experienced on paper but struggle in the pairing interview; whatever they were doing before, it wasn't hands-on-keyboard work.
If you enjoy programming I don't see why there's any limit other than senility or death.